NOW, however, there are at LEAST two more of you who will read this, so maybe I can have a longer and more in depth discussion about it. So let's try it again!! YAY!!!
Okay. Below is a video and lyrics to an Avett Brothers song called If It's the Beaches, and here is my question: A big theme in Avett Brothers' lyrics seems to be the concept of "rearrange my plans and change for you," which is a line in this song, and it got me thinking: is that the ultimate love song a man can sing for a woman, that they will change who they are to stay together? Is that what women want men to tell them? Is that what men think they have to do to keep a relationship together?
Thoughts? I went with the studio version of the song because it was the one that was easiest to hear. Don't actually look at the video, just listen to the song and read the lyrics that are below....
If It's the Beaches
Don't say it's over
Cause that's the worst news I could hear I swear that I will
Do my best to be here just the way you like it
Even though its hard to hide
Push my feelings all aside
I will rearrange my plans and change for you
If I could go back
That's the first thing I would do I swear that I would
Do my best to follow through
Come up with a master plan
A homerun hit, a winning stand
A guarantee and not a promise
That I'll never let your love slip from my hands
If it's the beaches
If it's the beaches' sands you want
Then you will have them
If it's the mountains' bending rivers
Then you will have them
If it's the wish to run away
Then I will grant it
Take whatever what you think of
While I go gas up the truck
Pack the old love letters up
We will read them when we forget why we left here
Edit: I changed the wording of this post a little because I didn't think I said it right the first time.
Logging you in...
Marlowefranklin · 695 weeks ago
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@pugariffic73 · 695 weeks ago
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@pugariffic73 · 695 weeks ago
you're a couple.. duh. I make zero sense today
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wasnt_serious · 695 weeks ago
Although I think the song is more about the panic that starts when the relationship really begins to end. You think that 'If I only did that they then will love me again' I am not sure how you feel about country music, but Blake Shelton's She wouldn't be gone is another example of the 'change' I think a lot of songs sing about...hindsight and all that jazz
blogginglily 73p · 695 weeks ago
I worked at a job for three and a half years. At the end of the 2nd year they promised that at the end of the third year, they would give me a salary bump to bring me up to local standards. . . cost of living. . . my position in the company, etc, as indicated by some multimillion dollar industry survey they conducted. Not THAT year, because times were tight and they could bump me, but not the bump they knew was fair. It was my first job.
As a young engineer in my first job, i worked my tail off attempting to earn that coming bump. 40 hours weeks were the "minimum" expected of someone in the consulting engineering field, so I worked 50 or 60. . . one week I remember 80; leaving the office at 2:00 a.m. to get a little sleep and shower and change clothes before going back.
At the end of the third year the economy took a bit of downturn and the company summoned me for my goals review and salary bump. We know we owe you, they said, and you met all your goals and have great reviews. . . but we can't do it. The company has dictated a maximum bump of 3% per department.
"Not my problem," I said. "Bump me 12% and bump someone else 1%. How you end up at your 3% roof doesn't concern me. What concerns ME is the promise you made me last year to bump me 12%." They went back to the drawing board. I checked back a week later. Nothing. Two weeks. Nothing. After the third week my boss came to me and said, "We looked into it. Our hands are tied."
I was unhappy. I looked for a new job. I interviewed. I got second interviews. I got a job offer. I know how the industry works. Companies will pay you to stay. There is no "loyalty". They try to minimize their costs. . . you as an employee try to maximize your salary. The conventional wisdom is, you go to your boss with your new job offer clenched in your fist and say. . . "match it or I'm out of here". But I was pissed. I felt like I'd been "betrayed" (it sounds dramatic, but I was 26).
Instead I offered my two week notice. My boss said, "is there anything we can do to convince you to stay?" I said. . .
"No. And if you make me a counteroffer, I'll be pissed off. I tried for a year and a half to get salary increase that you told me the company owed me. If you somehow find the money NOW, as I give my two week notice, I won't ever spend an day in this office where I'm not angry at the company."
A day later the HR director arrived. Same offer. Same answer.
A day after that the company president arrived. Same offer. I repeated my answer more tactfully to him.
And now, at long last, my point. You never want to be in a relationship where the threat of leaving is the only thing that prompts change. In a loving relationship change is organic. Change, if not expected, is definitely natural.
A priest once told my then fiance and I, that you fall in love (real love, not that stupid Kardashian married-today-divorced-tomorrow lust/money arrangment) because you see strengths in your mate that you want for yourself. Things that your mate has that you wish you had. My wife's organization, her compassion for others, her loving nature. . . these were weaknesses in me that marrying her helped me strengthen. . . and change.
That change was NOT done at the end of a shotgun barrel of threatened departure. It wasn't change "or else". If you love someone. Really love someone, then the change happens without the threat. And it happens to both of you.
Sorry for the schpiel.
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jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
DO women want men to change for them? IS the ultimate love song a man can sing to a woman the promise that he will change?
blogginglily 73p · 695 weeks ago
My recent post Blinded by Science - Part 1
jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
blogginglily 73p · 695 weeks ago
My recent post Blinded by Science - Part 1
blogginglily 73p · 695 weeks ago
My recent post Blinded by Science - Part 1
jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
@BehavioralChild · 695 weeks ago
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jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
@PaulJones3 · 695 weeks ago
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Liza · 695 weeks ago
Catherine · 695 weeks ago
No, I don't. Not really........
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jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
thissideoftypical 57p · 695 weeks ago
I want my husband to grow and change, because hopefully it will make him a better man. But i don't want him to change because i WANT him to. Does that make sense? because that kind of change seems selfish to me. I want him to change because HE wants to--because he wants to make our relationship better, because he wants to grow.
I don't change because he wants something specific from me (well, not ALL the time) but i do try to listen to him and grow based on what he and i both think.
I read the lyrics as if sung by an ex boyfriend of mine, and realized i would NOT want him to sing that to me. You either grow in the relationship you are in or you don't. and if you are not inspired to change by being with the person you are with, then you aren't going to, no matter how much they want you to.
did that make ANY fucking sense? I need to go lay down.
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jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
Lizbeth · 695 weeks ago
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jillsmo 103p · 695 weeks ago
Lizbeth · 695 weeks ago
My recent post I may be exhausted but damn-it, I'm a Queen.
booksnchickens 30p · 695 weeks ago
Kim · 695 weeks ago
At the beginning, both people are on their best behavior - so if you can't tolerate them when they're trying their best, don't up and marry them and expect them to change later, because you're looking for disappointment. Women seem to want to change a guy to suit them - instead, they should look for a guy who satisfies their list of traits (or comes closest to do doing so) right from the beginning.
You DID have a list of traits you were looking for, didn't you? Took me a long time to figure that one out.
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Handflapper · 695 weeks ago
Jim's answer was excellent, and mirrors what happened in my first marriage. When I was finally out the door, my ex said, "But I'll change! NOW I see what you meant!" after my saying it for three damn years. By then it was too, too late. I just didn't care any more.
Wait, did I answer your question? Is this what women want? Oh, yes. My current husband definitely changed when we started dating, but it was nothing I ever asked him to do or expected of him. What he wanted in life changed because of what he wanted with me and my children, and that changed him.
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sherilinr · 695 weeks ago
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appliedbehavioralstrategies 13p · 695 weeks ago
I have to go with both as well. Obviously, we, as women, are perfect and should not have to change. However, once you make that commitment, I think you have cave and realize that you might have to change to stay true to your word.
Finally, I do think that the change occurs in unison rather than in isolation. Thus, you change together as a couple.
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andrea · 695 weeks ago
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@DefytheSpectrum · 695 weeks ago
Women get married thinking she can change him. Men get married thinking she'll never change.
Jo Denson · 695 weeks ago
We tend to forget that when we love someone, we should love all of them, not just parts. Otherwise, is it really love? Or just tolerance?
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Cactusinyrpants 59p · 694 weeks ago
jillsmo 103p · 694 weeks ago
What would she do if you asked her to change for you?
Cactusinyrpants 59p · 694 weeks ago
jillsmo 103p · 694 weeks ago
It's okay. She'll never see this
Cactusinyrpants 59p · 694 weeks ago
I will admit that I was just talking out of my ass with that "easy" comment, sometimes I get overly bogus.
I do not think she would appreciate me asking her to change at all. But we are different people. She can ask me to change, and I will consider it, I'm not perfect, and frankly I could use some tweaking. But her, on the other hand, has to change gradually over time, with experience and gaining knowledge. So, I just make sure that she has the experience and gains the knowledge I want her to that will move her in the direction I want thus changing her to what I prefer. This way she can feel like she has "grown". To me it's the same thing, since she could just resist my pushing her in the direction I want. But she doesn't. SHe changes for me on her terms. And that's fine with me.
Cactusinyrpants 59p · 694 weeks ago
Rebecca · 687 weeks ago
I guess I don't really understand how someone could say that they love a person when they want their partner to be someone other than who they are at that moment.
Someone wanted me to be someone other than myself and it hurt. It was like I wasn't good enough for them and it felt like a sort of ultimatum, like if I didn't change, then the relationship would eventually fail because of my failure to change for the other person.
Getting back to the song, it speaks of the desperation of someone to keep the love of another when faced with the moment of losing them.