xmlns:og='http://ogp.me/ns#' Yeah. Good Times.: Autism and vaccinations: MY opinion

Monday, January 23, 2012

Autism and vaccinations: MY opinion

I thought I'd go and get all controversial on your asses, because why not, right? Actually... the only reason this blog exists in the first place is for me to get shit out of my head and into some other form, and this kind of post is just the thing!

The first thing I need to mention, and stress again and again, is something that never seems to get mentioned whenever this debate comes up. And that bothers me, which is why I'm writing this post. I've seen people screaming passionately at each other, that they know the answer about what autism "is," but I haven't seen anybody ever mention this: There are at least 2 different kinds of autism. There is Infantile Autism, where they are born different and there is Regressive Autism, where they develop normally until about 18 months and they suddenly lose all the progress they've made. The second kind is often combined with some kind of gastrointestinal issues, although they both can be. Why doesn't anybody ever mention this? Well, I don't really know, maybe a lot of people do and I've just never seen it; I don't read about this topic very often because of all the emotional strife it creates for all involved. I think we tend to assume that "our" autism is "the" autism, and anybody whose experience has been different surely isn't talking about anything we can relate to.

So! Having said that, here is some more:

Do I think Child 1's autism was caused by vaccines? No, I do not. Child 1 has infantile autism; he was born that way. He missed pretty much every single milestone there was to miss, except for sleeping through the night, which he did at 3 weeks, and he never had any adverse reactions to any of his shots. He also does not have any of the gastrointestinal issues that are so common with autistic children. And for the record, both of my kids are fully vaccinated and up to date on everything.

Do I think there's a connection between vaccines and autism? Yes I do, although it would be more clear for me to say I think there's a connection between one type of autism and vaccinations. Because even though my experience has not given me any personal evidence, I've heard way too many stories from parents that sound the same: "He was fine until the day he got his MMR, then he developed a fever that lasted for a week, he lost all of his language and he's never been the same since." There's a connection there. No, I don't know what it is; maybe it's some combination of a genetic pre-disposition and the stuff in the shot, I can't tell you more than that, I just very strongly believe that there is a connection.

I was talking about this post on Facebook and struck up a conversation with a mom who does believe that her child was harmed by vaccines. I asked her to write up her experience so that I could post it here:

From birth we had this beautiful alert child who was content to be cuddled and was very easy to live with daily. He was a engaged child that wanted to be cuddled and played with constantly and he preferred even when sleeping to be with us. We all thought it was funny that everyday he and his Daddy would nap together (son sleeping on Daddy's chest) on the couch. At an early age he started to talk and we would go down the road and he would point out and say " mmm, I cream or Izza Izza". He would get so excited by going to Kindergym and singing the songs with the other child and was easily the entertainer when we went to family parties.

Our journey into the solitary world of Autism began around 15 months. After our child had his vaccinations at 15 months of age he developed a high fever, malaise and cried a lot. The site where they gave the MMR and DTAP were swollen, red and hot. After a while he recovered but we started to have issues with him having repeated illnesses such as ear infections, yeast infections and upper respiratory infections. Overall he seemed less responsive and would sit for hour playing by himself and stopped making eye contact. At 18 months like a good mom I took him back for his check up and he got all in one visit Hepatitis B, DTaP, IPV and Varicella injections. Again, by the afternoon, he was cranky, cried inconsolably and ran high fevers with the same skin responses. It was at this point in his life that he started to lose speech ability, started becoming obsessed with playing with things that where not toys instead of his toys, such as the tubing on the vacuum, and he would put objects in and then let them roll out, over and over again. We took him to our local ENT and he recommended having his tonsils removed and did an emergent referral to our Early ON for his loss of language. I can still remember this 6 month time of his life as clear as it was yesterday because it is like we lost him to another world where we could see him but he was only really with us physically. I can say that 6 years later things are better but everyday still breaks our souls when we see how affected he is socially by his differences.
How many of you reading this, right now, can say your story is similar to what I've quoted above? Tell me in the comments, because I have a number in my mind and I'd like to see how accurate my guess is.

My autism story isn't nearly as dramatic: As a baby he hated being around too many people who were talking at once and would cry until I removed him from the situation. He made great eye contact, though, and liked to be held. He babbled on time but crawled and walked late, and when he wasn't actually talking by 18 months I started to worry (actually I started to worry from day 1, but you know what I mean....) The rest, as they say, is history.

Am I suggesting that parents not get their kids vaccinated? OH MY GOD NO. Absolutely not. Like everything in life, you have to play the numbers; weigh the consequences against the risks, and the odds of your unvaccinated child getting measles is higher than the odds of your child regressing because of a shot. And in the end? Measles can kill; autism cannot. I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one; and so would you.

Then what's my point? My point is, as follows: In my opinion there is enough anecdotal evidence out there to make a hugely convincing case that more research is necessary. Nobody can ever make a truly rational argument that "not trying to learn more about something" is ever the best way to go, despite what you predict "might" happen as a result. Hell, maybe Regressive Autism isn't actually autism after all, it's another condition entirely that mimics the symptoms of Infantile Autism, in which case OKAY! That's what that is! So let's find out.

Say what you want about Andrew Wakefield, and we all know there's a lot you can say about him, but when he inspected the stomach cells of the children in his study, did he find the measles virus in there? Probably somebody is going to tell me that he didn't, but honestly I'm not interested in all the extenuating circumstances involved, or however else anybody wants to talk about how horrible a person he is. I'm not his biggest fan or anything, I just want to know if the measles virus was actually found in the stomach linings of those children: some have said yes, some have said no. Wakefield raised questions and in my opinion there have yet to be any conclusive answers. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about the studies that once again "prove" there is no connection between the shots and autism, because how do you explain that to the mom I talked to? How do you explain to her exactly what happened to her child, if it wasn't the shots? You can't. But you also can't just dismiss her personal experiences simply because yours were different. There is very little science knows about what causes a child to regress for seemingly no reason, and this mom (and many others) want answers.

And in the end, while our stories stories are different, what's most important is that regardless of "type," the end result is usually the same: people living with a complex developmental disorder significantly affecting verbal and nonverbal communication and social interaction, emotional regulation and sensory processing abilities. It is this similar "end result" that makes us fight about this so much, after all, if you didn't follow the same path that I did, how can you possibly be in the same place I am? (I don't really believe that, I'm just saying it as an example). But we are in the same place (more or less), and that's why this issue is so volatile. I'm not saying I have any answers, I'm saying there are too many questions that need explanations, and until we can all be satisfied with concrete scientific results, that can give people like my friend up there an answer to her questions, this debate will go on and on and on and on.

As autism parents and autistic people, we need to get past this divide. We need to move past the Wakefield debate and just accept that our experiences have been different. We need to stop fighting with each other and start working together, because despite everything, we have a common goal: the happiness and well being of every autistic person, regardless of the journey they've taken to get where they are.



Comments (108)

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I agree with you 100 percent! I know my boys were different from infancy. I don't share the experience of them having gained then lost skills. Like yours, mine missed every milestone they could have missed. I still want answers. I want to know without a doubt that vaccinations are safe. I want to know without a doubt that no matter which kind of Autism our children have, we are all in this together. We are stronger as a group who can unite and demand that science do something to get answers. Answers that are for our children as well as ourselves.

Well done, Jill!
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I thought I was going to get mad! You said you were going to be controversial!

" I think we tend to assume that "our" autism is "the" autism, and anybody whose experience has been different surely isn't talking about anything we can relate to."

"We need to stop fighting with each other and start working together, because despite everything, we have a common goal"

This really hit me, & not just in terms of autism & vaccines. OUR truth is not the only truth & it's not even the only valid truth. We have more in common than not, I'd imagine. We're all alone staring at the ceiling at 2am. We all need help & if we let the establishment or celebrities polarize us & tear us apart, we lose ground & precious time & energy every day.

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1 reply · active 687 weeks ago
I'm not sure how it all goes, but I do think some kids are more susceptible to having reactions to vaccines than others. That's why the doctor gives you those papers when you get them stating the risks, what to look for, etc. It's like people who have side effects to any medicine. Some do, some don't. I certainly won't discount that some do. As parents, we weight the risks and do what we think is best.

That said, my boys were born autistic. The older one barely flew under the doctor's radar, and they poopooed me for years. Then, finally, it was undeniable. At that point, they couldn't deny the younger child either. Sadly, I think the lack of funding for EI services plays into this. I think doctors are afraid to refer a "maybe" kid because of funding. They want to be sure there's something there. I say we would be better safe than sorry. I think if there's even a chance the child needs EI they should be referred for an evaluation. If it turns out there's nothing there, then you know.

No matter how your child became autistic, we're all in this together. I wish everyone was as supportive as the group of other autism parents I've been able to surround myself with online. I don't care if we agree on what methods work. Every child and every family is different. But let's support each other, and at least have a community where we can come together on a bad day and say "Holy shit! me too!" and commisserate with each other when we need the support of someone who's been there.

*Disclaimer: I hope at least some of this makes sense. It's early. I'm not properly caffeinated, and I'm on cold meds.
I know without a doubt that my youngest has always been autistic. She was a sweet little baby, rarely cried, but she clung to me like a monkey, tended to look very deep in thought, and started showing signs that I recognized before her first birthday. She does not regress, but climbs her hill at a slow and steady pace.

My oldest, on the other hand, is somewhere between the two you described. She seemed to be developing normally (to me) and with the exception of a raging case of reflux, was very happy, and right on time with all of her growth. It was around 13, 14 months that I thought something might be up, and then was diagnosed at 2. She has major regression issues. When she got her booster shots for Kindergarten, she got super hyper for a day and then stopped talking the next. It took a year and a half for her to recover. However, prior to that, she never reacted to a shot that I was aware--she never ran a fever or cried, or had inflammation at the site, etc. So, I don't know.
great post Jill
My thoughts exactly

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I think we are a cross of things.

My oldest daughter was delayed in all aspects from speech to walking BUT she does not have autism. She just had a global developmental delay and with early childhood preschool and therapy she has caught up amazingly.

So with the second one I noticed she did things different from the get go. She has autism. I had a high risk pregnancy when I had too much amniotic fluid. Sounds harmless right? Well one of the things they said could happen was neurological disorders and preterm labor. Nobody ever said anything about autism. I went into labor early by almost a month but she was already 7.4lbs weight. So no low birth rate.

She hit herself in the head when she cried when she was an infant to soothe herself. She had to be basically swaddled until she was 6 months old. She had to be constantly moving in the car or we had to have white noise on the radio to calm her. Lot's of little things that for other people might be something they outgrow but with her it was different. She was constantly sick though. She had croup at 7 months and constant colds. She had words "mama, love you" and she did things you asked like "give kiss" or hugs. For a 2-3 month period she had 3 back to back ear infections and was pumped with antibiotics. Guess when she got her MMR vaccinations? Yes during that time frame. Do I think vaccinations alone caused her to have more issues and regress with language? Maybe. I think it's all part of her equation. It's a difficult thing to talk about. I would not tell people to not vaccinate their child either but I would like parents to have the choice to not do all the vaccinations at one time in one shot.

We were lucky in the aspect that our pediatrician is on the local board of directors for Easter Seals and listened to our concerns and didn't hush me or ignore me. Though I would love to see the practice to take the time and go through their records of patients and see what kind of results they get from kids who were ok before the shots and then who weren't ok after the shots. I think that's asking to much I guess. Sigh.
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Beautifully written post. I think most of us have children with autism that was always there. Our story was nothing like the story you have from the other mother up there. My son never had any reaction to his vaccinations. He never crawled but started walking very early (I hear that's not good) and struggled with words (behind where he should be always). We were a late referral - I think because he is high functioning it was more difficult for the pediatrician to see - I was just too ignorant to see at the time. I agree that there is too much anecdotal evidence to deny that there is some type of connection with some families despite Wakefield's stupidity. I think vaccination is important too but I did not live that manifestation of autism and I can understand how people feel strongly about it.
K wasn't regressive, either. Things were off from the get go with her (even though, up until 12 months, she hit physical milestones early...thereafter she fell behind). We never saw any reactions from vaccines, ie fevers, malaise, etc. Do I know 100% vaccines didn't affect her in some way? No. But I def no she wasn't some talkative 18mo who suddenly just stopped interacting with the world. I'll tell you this...the fact that Autism is all lumped together worries me. I personally don't think anything they find on regressive autism will help my kid. I think if a kid regresses, there clearly must be some kind of bodily damage that is different from those with infantile autism. Frankly, I think all the stories go to regressive autism and leave out those of us whose kids really did have it from birth. I feel we will get left behind in the research. I think they definitely need to be studied almost as 2 different issues. Maybe vaccines cause symptoms that are autistic-like, but healing the gut or brain or whatever isn't going to help my kid.
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2 replies · active 687 weeks ago
atta girl! you rock.
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2 replies · active 687 weeks ago
Yeah, I'm with you on this too, I suppose. Just because science HASN'T linked them doesn't mean there isn't a link. There's a nearly infinite amount of things that science hasn't yet linked that are linked nevertheless. Perhaps this is one of those.
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3 replies · active 687 weeks ago
Oooo controversial! I'm not going to express an opinion here, because I definitely don't know enough about the subject. AND I don't have kids.
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One thing that REALLY bugs me are people who are all nasty on both sides of this "debate." I could honestly care less what the science is; there is no reason to belittle the intellect of people who have decided not to vaccinate or act as though people who do are just unthinking and haven't done their own research.

Good grief. I had all my vaccines and still got a medically documented case of measles so what I would say is DO NOT BLAME PARENTS if their unvaccinated kids get sick. 100% of the time people get sick because of viruses and not because of a lack of vaccination. (duh!)

BTW We do not have the regressive kind here, my children are all born autistic. I won't discount the stories of others, though I think honestly there is more to it than just the vaccines.
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1 reply · active 687 weeks ago
Like you were in my head, lady! Nicely done, m'dear. Nicely done!
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This is fantastic and totally sums up my opinions if my thinking were as clear as yours. My son was born with autism. He never regressed, but he didn't hit his milestones on time, either, especially talking. He also slept through the night early on. So, I have never believed that vaccinations caused Danny's autism. That said, all the stories I have read from other moms whose kids totally regressed have always bothered me. Surely, there had to be something to them. Your theory makes so much sense! And I agree totally that we all need to stop fighting each other and support one another.
I don't care if dancing around a fire naked causes autism, I just want parent to mind their own business and STFU and realize that we are all in this together and we need to support one another, despite our differences. Everyone has t find their own way and has to do what is right for their family. There is not one size fits all in autism.

That's s aid,we have two born-this-ways. And obviously genetic, since I had two brothers that talked at 4, one at three and three nephews all on the spectrum. And anyone that argues with me gets a kick in the pants. S there. ;)
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2 replies · active 687 weeks ago
I can't stand posts like this... seriously, you put "past this divide" in the last paragraph, instead of "passed this divide".
My God I hate you. Can't you write anything that makes any sense at all? Did you even attend school?

The rest I agree with though :D
9 replies · active 687 weeks ago
My son was meeting all of his milestones either on target or a bit early. He had several dozen recognizable words, loved to sing, etc. After his 15 month vaccines he got really sick. High fevers, irritability, sick to his stomach, etc. The injection sites swelled so badly on his legs that they had to give him steroids to bring the swelling down enough so that he could walk. Between 15-18 months he lost all language, started screaming when he would see strangers (who were defined as anyone not his mom, dad, or sister), starting lining everything up, etc. I won't say vaccines = autism for my son but given his allergies to so many things, I do think he had some kind of reaction to something in the vaccines that triggered his autism. Having said that I'm not in the slightest anti-vaccine; I do think parents should do their homework though and research family history, look at their child's medical history (by 15 months we already knew Caden was sensitive to many meds and foods), etc. and make their own informed decision. What's safe for most, isn't necessarily safe for everyone. If I had to do things again considering Caden's reactions to other meds, I would have probably still given the vaccines but I would have spaced them out differently.
Lana Schuhmacher's avatar

Lana Schuhmacher · 687 weeks ago

I guess I will be the first to say, my daughter regressed. She was going at a normal rate until between 15 and 18 months. Actually she was ahead of the game, then boom, we have your classic autism. What happened to us, shouldn't have, but where she got her shots, well they didn't pay any attention to me saying she was allergic to eggs, dairy, etc. So as you can guess, she had an allergic reactionto the shots, and we have autism.

That being said. I do believe that some are born, and some are pre-desposed, (like my daughter). We all need the answers, why we got here, what part of our genetics has done this, and how to make our and our children's lives more managable.

And more importantly, we all need to work together, no more name calling, or "I know more than you", "your opinion is different from mine, therefore it is wrong."

And that is just my two cents, hopefully it makes sense.
While I do believe environmental factors can cause autism, I don't think that all fingers point to vaccines. Why not point the finger at pollution, genetically altered foods, preservatives, medications, etc. There are so many other possibilities out there I DO agree there needs to be lots more research. I firmly believe there is not one specific cause. There is too much wrong with our water supply, food supply and air supply (no joke here) to pin the later onset autism to ONE factor.
Christy and Gavin's avatar

Christy and Gavin · 687 weeks ago

My son hit every milestone but his last two vaccinations cause him seizures. The doctor told me it was bad nightmares yeah okay. He began to lose the ability to speak his own words began to repeat everything he heard or seen. He began to play alone and line things up and create his own play. He was diagnosed with autism at age 4. He has an uncle that has asperger's I believe it is genetic in some way but the vaccinations brought it out if that makes sense. He is now 11 and the road has been trying but he has made so many accomplishment.
This was excellent Jill, and I thought you were going to get everyone all fired up. I do think Ashlyn had adverse reactions to vaccines, she regressed, has major gut issues and is so sensitive to EVERYTHING that goes in her body or that she encounters. Hard to ignore what you see in your own child, ultimately, I think that is how we all feel, just sometimes with completely different thoughts behind why.
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"And in the end? Measles can kill; autism cannot. I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one; and so would you."

Thank you for saying this. As a person who cannot hold an immunity to measles (I've been injected 7 times in my life, and not a single vac has taken) and a mother to two children who cannot hold an immunity to measles, I am so scared that one day they will contract this life-threatening disease. It presented once, at their old school. I pulled my older son out for two weeks. I don't like the amount (or the timing) of our current vaccines, but children are alive because of them.

As for further research-- absolutely! Just because one researcher has been discredited doesn't mean that all research into the subject should be stopped-- quite the opposite! And why is no one researching the possible link between autism and gluten-casein intolerance? I've heard there are promising results there as well-- especially for type 2 autism.
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@gypsy_momma's avatar

@gypsy_momma · 687 weeks ago

What makes the whole thing even more frustrating is when you get a parent like me who has a child who has been "cured" of her autism. DO NOT BASH ME YET!

My daughter hit all milestones, no issues whatsoever with anything - had at least 20 words in her vocabulary by 8 months even, lovely child, only thing all that 'off' about her early in life is she snored from hour one & there were latch issues that I just couldn't fix so we switched to a bottle. At 10 months old she developed her first ear infection.

By a year old we'd noticed she'd quit talking. Instead she'd just SCREAM. She also quit sleeping on her own. She'd start SCREAMING as soon as you'd lay her down and would only sleep for an hour, two at the most if she was laying propped on me. I'd take her to the doc. He'd look her over & decide nothing was wrong with her, I just needed to change my parenting style. I needed to quit coddling my SCREAMING toddler.

Online friends of mine suggested that she may fall on the spectrum, so I went thru all the testings & EI & all. Yep...she was autistic, but not, maybe it was just SPD, or no, she didn't fit that the next week, definitely on the spectrum, high functioning one week, the next week no where near the spectrum. Until they decided it was just a parenting problem. Just before she turned 2 I went into the hospital because MY body was shutting down from the lack of sleep.

Thankfully around that time someone suggested melatonin & I ran with it & she started sleeping for 3-4 hrs at a time, so I started getting what looked like sleep...and that was with the 9mg max dose recommendations. Thankfully we moved to a whole new state a few months after her 2nd birthday...a whole new batch of OTs, PTs, & doctors.

They all said basically the same thing as the previous one - yes, she seemed on the spectrum one day, but not quite another day...the thing they did differently though is they sent us to an ENT. Not because she'd had chronic ear infections, but because there was fluid in her ears without infection symptoms. When she was 30 months old...almost 18 months after her 1st/only ear infection...tubes were put in her ears & her adenoids were removed. She FINALLLLLY started sleeping ALL night! She also quit the SCREAMING all the time and actually started talking a bit.

Just before her 4th birthday, a few months ago, she had her tonsils taken out. She quit snoring. She's started talking...all.the.time. Screaming is minimal & what I'd deem as 'normal' for a 4 year old with a 9 year old brother. And she now just has speech therapy 2x a week & soon to start physical therapy to help correct some balance issues. It's expected that by the time she starts kindergarten in about 18 months she'll be totally on par with her 'normal' classmates.

I'm not saying something as 'simple' as a few surgeries will cure autism, not in any way shape or form. But I do know that some professionals would rather brush some kids or parents off into such a broad category than actually listen to parents or would rather blame the parent for some shortcoming on their part than to find a real reason for regressions & the like.

It pissed me royally off to review my daughter's medical chart & see where one had said that she was cured of autism & SPD when in fact all she needed was her genetically abnormally large tonsils & adenoids removed. I've suffered with sinus & ear issues all my life, but never anything severe enough for my folks or doctors to consider doing anything about it...I leave here in a few hours to have my surgery scheduled to have mine removed with the expectations of getting the same results - a 'cure' for chronic issues. My chronic issues though didn't start until I was about 10 years old and coincided with my first ever actual upper respiratory infection.

Regardless of the reason behind the diagnosis or the sudden cause or regression or whatever, it's a VERY broad category that has been recently made popular for kids to be shuffled into because they don't meet the status quo and some professionals are just too lazy to look past the surface.
6 replies · active 687 weeks ago
Thanks for sharing your opinion. It was fair and balanced.
I opine that: (I thought you would like me to "opine") There are environmental triggers, yes. Both in womb and in the world. Possibly for egg and sperm before they even meet. Genetic loading. yes. I believe in science and the researchers all over the world working tirelessly for the answers. I know: my kiddo had bad reaction to DTap. Same as you always hear-- leg burning red and swollen--could not walk on it for 3-4 days. High fever. Beet red in face and blood shot eyes. But, the kid had autism already. DTap did not cause his autism. His develolmental trajectory was already off kilter-- way ahead schedule with some milestones, others delayed or absent. Sensory issues were present since birth, I can see in retrospect. Also, regressive autism has been documented and known about for several decades now. Kids with autism were developing with apparent normalcy and regressing around the mean age of 18 mo. way before our current wackadoodle vaccine schedule existed, in fact, before many of the current vaccines existed. And I am not exonerating vaccines by saying that. I'm just saying it. That's all I have got. No answers. No arguments. Just a few facts and a few opinions.

on a related note I'll just offer this :Personally, I care about answers and cures and autism prevention plans in our future. I'm not that interested in anger, blame, or fighting though. I will work with you toward common goals. To educate and support. But I just can't give a rats ass about arguing with anyone who is also raising a child with autism. I have my grief and anger, too. Therapy and healthcare are my friends and allies. If your kid has autism and you are struggling, I hope you want to be my friend and ally, too. I hope you can accept that I just don't know enough to agree or disagree with: thoughts about vaccines. I am not trying to diminish anyone's experience or tell them that they are batshit crazy. I'm just saying,"well, um, I dunno."
For me it was different. Jacob began to show signs of being different right away. Since he'd always been like that, we just accepted that as who he was. Jacob got most of the vaccines available, but I don't think they made him worse than he already was. From what I've learned about Asperger's, my son most likely got it from me. I very well could be autistic. All the traits that Jacob shows which helped him get his diagnosis are clearly visible in me. I don't know what vaccines I've had, but I don't even get flu shots.

I don't know if vaccines can cause ASD, but if they dido and we kneow about it, I'd still get my son vaccinated against some things. We as parents look for answers about our children's issues. Me personally, I think vaccines could worsen ASD, but maybe it doesn't. The funny thing is, if tests proved without a doubt, that vaccines had no bearing on autism what so ever, would parents really believe that to be true?
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Re: above
Hey im not Kay, I'm Kat. Thank God. Kay is not so great a name, I opine.
I love you so much more today. I havent read the other comments yet.. but you and i are at the same level of thinking. I went through bootcamp and was vaccinated with I DONT KNOW WHAT!!!!! Thats right.. there 's NO record of it lol I kept all of my files. everything. (shh. don't ask) When I was pregnant with Tommy they were demanding every get vaccinated for anthrax. Of course I wasnt, but what i thought was funny, was they wouldn't vaccinate my hub either. Which, before I HAD Tommy, I had said.. just off the cuff.. "watch.. he's going to come out with 3 eyes or something..." jokingly about not getting HIM vaccinated because his wife was preg. I thought that was so bizzare. Im with you. Its SOMETHING. I've come to terms that i'll never get that answer before I die. But, my daughter promised to keep me posted from beyond lol :)
I do not have experience with Autism but I have to say it scares the hell outta me when i think about all the people who get scared of the vaccines and take the extreme step to not vaccinate. I have gotten 3 letters sent home from school this year, from the county, about a serious rise in cases of whooping cough and chicken pox. Why the hell would any parent want their children to suffer with diseases that are completely preventable on the off chance that the child could end up Autistic? I love the point you made when you said you'd rather have an Autistic kid than a dead one. THAT is the most excellent point on the matter I'v heard!

My daughter has ADD. I just learned that it's possible that my gestational diabetes may have contributed to it. There's NOTHING I can do about that! All we can do is the best we can with what we have.
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1 reply · active 687 weeks ago
My son did regress, but I cannot link it to vaccines in any noticeable way. He never had a bad reaction, and we continue to vaccinate. So there's that :) I think it is important for everyone to remember that correlation is not causation, and that although the vaccines may be correlated with a regressive type of autism, that only provides a starting place to look. There may be other things that develop in the brain around that time that could also cause regression.

Now, if one does think vaccines might cause this kind of developmental delay, it doesn't necessarily only have to be for regressive types of autism. Many newborns get vaccines within a day or two of birth. Again, maybe we just don't see the effects of those until later, when certain types of brain development occur.

That said, I don't believe that is the case, and I'd like to see money go in to other types of research, because I do think we can focus on the vaccine-autism link which is certainly controversial but may be barking up the wrong tree.

Finally, I agree there are likely to be multiple types of autism, and research is already being done to show that. In other words, it may not be the two you describe, but based more on the causes; i.e., genetic (perhaps expressed and unexpressed) or "triggered" by some environmental factor (in-utero or later), caused by seizure or other medical condition, an immune response, and maybe sub-types within those. That type of understanding would not just help us determine causes, but also help us identify appropriate treatments on a per-child basis and clear up why some kids seem to benefit from, say, dietary changes, while others do not.
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Katie Wright · 687 weeks ago

SAME horrible story.
It is so terrible, honestly, if it had not happened to my child I don't know if I would believe it.
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Very well said. I am a teacher (now retired) not a parent, but I have known so many families whose children have shown similar regression after receiving various vaccinations. Their stories need to be told - and listened to with respect.
Amen to the idea of working together to do what's best for the kids!
I don't really see the controversy. There is no real controversy unless there's a choice to be made. I don't see a choice here. The diseases that immunizations address are definitely connected with illness and death. Vaccines save millions of lives. We're not going to stop using them until there's a better solution available.

As a thought experiment, let's say it's proven tomorrow that a percentage of kids immunized will develop autism. Will I stop vaccinating my kids? Hell, no. If I take my kids to the hospital, I know that there is a proven statistically significant chance that the visit will result in a serious viral or bacterial infection. That's a proven risk. Yet, I take them when they need it, because I balance that chance against the risks and discomfort of the condition that the hospital is treating.
I agree there seems to be at LEAST a correlation to vaccines and some form of Autism. I don't believe it caused my sons, he was always little "quirky." But, my scientific side stills says I have to remember a correlation does not mean causation; although at some point they may find that it is causation...

Anyways, your quote " Measles can kill; autism cannot. I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one; and so would you." This is my thoughts (although, thanks to being in America each can make their own choice without judgement from me).
You mirrored my thoughts exactly. I do believe there are likely two kinds. I don't think that half of us are crazy. Our son clearly has the infantile kind, and it runs in our family as well. But all these folks saying that the rising numbers are nothing but increased diagnosis. B.S. I'm a big believer in the grocery store litmus test. If there were equal percentages of children in 1970 with autism as there are now, then where, precisely, are they? Because I am simply not seeing large numbers of 40 year olds walking around the grocery store with their elderly parents, flapping away. Perhaps it isn't solely vaccines. Perhaps there are any number of environmental insults to trigger it in predisposed children, but we need research - not accusations of being crazy. I also vaccinate my children. Well spoken, jillsmo. And, since I know you've been on the lookout for a troll, how about I say...You're a big poopyhead? (My 4 year old thinks them fightin' words, let me tell you.) :)
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I can only speak for what my child has and whatever it is, he's had since birth. We've always known he was different from day one. I can't speak for regressive Autism or what causes it.

For us, I'm a strong believer that its a mix of old age and bad eggs and blamo-you get a perfect kid with Autism. Or at least we did. I have a scientific background and I see more of a link with genetics and autism. I believe there will be a genetic marker found but for now we just have to wait for the science to catch up.
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ShesAlwaysWrite · 687 weeks ago

I'm so glad you wrote this, because with now that people are talking about the exciting new finding announced earlier this month (the one about the protein marker relevant to immune system) I'm findinding myself explaining to friends who ask what it means for autism that there are two kinds and it remains to be seen if this finding will be significant for one or both types.

We knew from the very beginning there was something different about our son and approached pediatrician about autism around 15 mos... but it took until he got a lot worse for anyone to take it seriously and he was nearly 4 when he got diagnosed.
So, I know almost nothing about this or Andrew Wakefield, but it's always good to read about different perspectives. And of course, YES, there is no point in parents fighting each other. Never.
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I agree with you. But i think vaccinations should still exist (of course!!) but in smaller doses, more often = or at the very least, let us mums have the choice. Currently we don't becasue NOBODY LISTENS TO US WHEN OUR KIDS BECOME AUTISTIC AFTER VACCINATIONS!!!! IF frken chites me.

Scientists say there's no link, is not all the mothers saying it A FRKEN LINK!!!! idiots still exist - there's proof.
Little Bird, like Lady Gaga, was born this way. No milestone met on time. No regression. Infantile Autism, global delays.
I agree that there's gotta be some connection, and we'd better figure it out soon because hell hath no fury like an Autism mommy!!

Just because my experience is different, I'd never, ever question or fuck with another mom's belief regarding her own baby and/or his/her experience. Mommies (and daddies) know.
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Amazing post! :D
I might sound like a total ass but in this whole social media world I feel like I only hear about regressive autism and vaccines. I was surprised to see so many responses with infant autism and wish that more people wrote with the understanding that there are 2 types. My kids don't have autism ( that we know) and are all vaccinated. They have a cousin with mito and a friend with an immune issue so if they were not vaccinated they couldn't be anywhere around those kids. We would have vaccinated anyway as I too would rather have them here.

All these battles when we should be together raising awareness and funds for research on a cure and prevention.
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