The first thing I need to mention, and stress again and again, is something that never seems to get mentioned whenever this debate comes up. And that bothers me, which is why I'm writing this post. I've seen people screaming passionately at each other, that they know the answer about what autism "is," but I haven't seen anybody ever mention this: There are at least 2 different kinds of autism. There is Infantile Autism, where they are born different and there is Regressive Autism, where they develop normally until about 18 months and they suddenly lose all the progress they've made. The second kind is often combined with some kind of gastrointestinal issues, although they both can be. Why doesn't anybody ever mention this? Well, I don't really know, maybe a lot of people do and I've just never seen it; I don't read about this topic very often because of all the emotional strife it creates for all involved. I think we tend to assume that "our" autism is "the" autism, and anybody whose experience has been different surely isn't talking about anything we can relate to.
So! Having said that, here is some more:
Do I think Child 1's autism was caused by vaccines? No, I do not. Child 1 has infantile autism; he was born that way. He missed pretty much every single milestone there was to miss, except for sleeping through the night, which he did at 3 weeks, and he never had any adverse reactions to any of his shots. He also does not have any of the gastrointestinal issues that are so common with autistic children. And for the record, both of my kids are fully vaccinated and up to date on everything.
Do I think there's a connection between vaccines and autism? Yes I do, although it would be more clear for me to say I think there's a connection between one type of autism and vaccinations. Because even though my experience has not given me any personal evidence, I've heard way too many stories from parents that sound the same: "He was fine until the day he got his MMR, then he developed a fever that lasted for a week, he lost all of his language and he's never been the same since." There's a connection there. No, I don't know what it is; maybe it's some combination of a genetic pre-disposition and the stuff in the shot, I can't tell you more than that, I just very strongly believe that there is a connection.
I was talking about this post on Facebook and struck up a conversation with a mom who does believe that her child was harmed by vaccines. I asked her to write up her experience so that I could post it here:
From birth we had this beautiful alert child who was content to be cuddled and was very easy to live with daily. He was a engaged child that wanted to be cuddled and played with constantly and he preferred even when sleeping to be with us. We all thought it was funny that everyday he and his Daddy would nap together (son sleeping on Daddy's chest) on the couch. At an early age he started to talk and we would go down the road and he would point out and say " mmm, I cream or Izza Izza". He would get so excited by going to Kindergym and singing the songs with the other child and was easily the entertainer when we went to family parties.How many of you reading this, right now, can say your story is similar to what I've quoted above? Tell me in the comments, because I have a number in my mind and I'd like to see how accurate my guess is.
Our journey into the solitary world of Autism began around 15 months. After our child had his vaccinations at 15 months of age he developed a high fever, malaise and cried a lot. The site where they gave the MMR and DTAP were swollen, red and hot. After a while he recovered but we started to have issues with him having repeated illnesses such as ear infections, yeast infections and upper respiratory infections. Overall he seemed less responsive and would sit for hour playing by himself and stopped making eye contact. At 18 months like a good mom I took him back for his check up and he got all in one visit Hepatitis B, DTaP, IPV and Varicella injections. Again, by the afternoon, he was cranky, cried inconsolably and ran high fevers with the same skin responses. It was at this point in his life that he started to lose speech ability, started becoming obsessed with playing with things that where not toys instead of his toys, such as the tubing on the vacuum, and he would put objects in and then let them roll out, over and over again. We took him to our local ENT and he recommended having his tonsils removed and did an emergent referral to our Early ON for his loss of language. I can still remember this 6 month time of his life as clear as it was yesterday because it is like we lost him to another world where we could see him but he was only really with us physically. I can say that 6 years later things are better but everyday still breaks our souls when we see how affected he is socially by his differences.
My autism story isn't nearly as dramatic: As a baby he hated being around too many people who were talking at once and would cry until I removed him from the situation. He made great eye contact, though, and liked to be held. He babbled on time but crawled and walked late, and when he wasn't actually talking by 18 months I started to worry (actually I started to worry from day 1, but you know what I mean....) The rest, as they say, is history.
Am I suggesting that parents not get their kids vaccinated? OH MY GOD NO. Absolutely not. Like everything in life, you have to play the numbers; weigh the consequences against the risks, and the odds of your unvaccinated child getting measles is higher than the odds of your child regressing because of a shot. And in the end? Measles can kill; autism cannot. I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one; and so would you.
Then what's my point? My point is, as follows: In my opinion there is enough anecdotal evidence out there to make a hugely convincing case that more research is necessary. Nobody can ever make a truly rational argument that "not trying to learn more about something" is ever the best way to go, despite what you predict "might" happen as a result. Hell, maybe Regressive Autism isn't actually autism after all, it's another condition entirely that mimics the symptoms of Infantile Autism, in which case OKAY! That's what that is! So let's find out.
Say what you want about Andrew Wakefield, and we all know there's a lot you can say about him, but when he inspected the stomach cells of the children in his study, did he find the measles virus in there? Probably somebody is going to tell me that he didn't, but honestly I'm not interested in all the extenuating circumstances involved, or however else anybody wants to talk about how horrible a person he is. I'm not his biggest fan or anything, I just want to know if the measles virus was actually found in the stomach linings of those children: some have said yes, some have said no. Wakefield raised questions and in my opinion there have yet to be any conclusive answers. Frankly I'm tired of hearing about the studies that once again "prove" there is no connection between the shots and autism, because how do you explain that to the mom I talked to? How do you explain to her exactly what happened to her child, if it wasn't the shots? You can't. But you also can't just dismiss her personal experiences simply because yours were different. There is very little science knows about what causes a child to regress for seemingly no reason, and this mom (and many others) want answers.
And in the end, while our stories stories are different, what's most important is that regardless of "type," the end result is usually the same: people living with a complex developmental disorder significantly affecting verbal and nonverbal communication and social interaction, emotional regulation and sensory processing abilities. It is this similar "end result" that makes us fight about this so much, after all, if you didn't follow the same path that I did, how can you possibly be in the same place I am? (I don't really believe that, I'm just saying it as an example). But we are in the same place (more or less), and that's why this issue is so volatile. I'm not saying I have any answers, I'm saying there are too many questions that need explanations, and until we can all be satisfied with concrete scientific results, that can give people like my friend up there an answer to her questions, this debate will go on and on and on and on.
As autism parents and autistic people, we need to get past this divide. We need to move past the Wakefield debate and just accept that our experiences have been different. We need to stop fighting with each other and start working together, because despite everything, we have a common goal: the happiness and well being of every autistic person, regardless of the journey they've taken to get where they are.
Forgotten · 687 weeks ago
Well done, Jill!
My recent post Crisis mode...
Eryn · 687 weeks ago
" I think we tend to assume that "our" autism is "the" autism, and anybody whose experience has been different surely isn't talking about anything we can relate to."
"We need to stop fighting with each other and start working together, because despite everything, we have a common goal"
This really hit me, & not just in terms of autism & vaccines. OUR truth is not the only truth & it's not even the only valid truth. We have more in common than not, I'd imagine. We're all alone staring at the ceiling at 2am. We all need help & if we let the establishment or celebrities polarize us & tear us apart, we lose ground & precious time & energy every day.
My recent post I only have to outrun YOU: Cannibalizing ourselves in the name of self-esteem.
Amanda · 687 weeks ago
That said, my boys were born autistic. The older one barely flew under the doctor's radar, and they poopooed me for years. Then, finally, it was undeniable. At that point, they couldn't deny the younger child either. Sadly, I think the lack of funding for EI services plays into this. I think doctors are afraid to refer a "maybe" kid because of funding. They want to be sure there's something there. I say we would be better safe than sorry. I think if there's even a chance the child needs EI they should be referred for an evaluation. If it turns out there's nothing there, then you know.
No matter how your child became autistic, we're all in this together. I wish everyone was as supportive as the group of other autism parents I've been able to surround myself with online. I don't care if we agree on what methods work. Every child and every family is different. But let's support each other, and at least have a community where we can come together on a bad day and say "Holy shit! me too!" and commisserate with each other when we need the support of someone who's been there.
*Disclaimer: I hope at least some of this makes sense. It's early. I'm not properly caffeinated, and I'm on cold meds.
Lyndsey · 687 weeks ago
My oldest, on the other hand, is somewhere between the two you described. She seemed to be developing normally (to me) and with the exception of a raging case of reflux, was very happy, and right on time with all of her growth. It was around 13, 14 months that I thought something might be up, and then was diagnosed at 2. She has major regression issues. When she got her booster shots for Kindergarten, she got super hyper for a day and then stopped talking the next. It took a year and a half for her to recover. However, prior to that, she never reacted to a shot that I was aware--she never ran a fever or cried, or had inflammation at the site, etc. So, I don't know.
Floortime Lite Mama · 687 weeks ago
My thoughts exactly
My recent post Part Two : Tales of India: Purulia Days
mmartin72 20p · 687 weeks ago
My oldest daughter was delayed in all aspects from speech to walking BUT she does not have autism. She just had a global developmental delay and with early childhood preschool and therapy she has caught up amazingly.
So with the second one I noticed she did things different from the get go. She has autism. I had a high risk pregnancy when I had too much amniotic fluid. Sounds harmless right? Well one of the things they said could happen was neurological disorders and preterm labor. Nobody ever said anything about autism. I went into labor early by almost a month but she was already 7.4lbs weight. So no low birth rate.
She hit herself in the head when she cried when she was an infant to soothe herself. She had to be basically swaddled until she was 6 months old. She had to be constantly moving in the car or we had to have white noise on the radio to calm her. Lot's of little things that for other people might be something they outgrow but with her it was different. She was constantly sick though. She had croup at 7 months and constant colds. She had words "mama, love you" and she did things you asked like "give kiss" or hugs. For a 2-3 month period she had 3 back to back ear infections and was pumped with antibiotics. Guess when she got her MMR vaccinations? Yes during that time frame. Do I think vaccinations alone caused her to have more issues and regress with language? Maybe. I think it's all part of her equation. It's a difficult thing to talk about. I would not tell people to not vaccinate their child either but I would like parents to have the choice to not do all the vaccinations at one time in one shot.
We were lucky in the aspect that our pediatrician is on the local board of directors for Easter Seals and listened to our concerns and didn't hush me or ignore me. Though I would love to see the practice to take the time and go through their records of patients and see what kind of results they get from kids who were ok before the shots and then who weren't ok after the shots. I think that's asking to much I guess. Sigh.
My recent post It didn't suck and that was awesome
solodialogue 73p · 687 weeks ago
Jen · 687 weeks ago
My recent post Please visit my NEW blog
thissideoftypical 57p · 687 weeks ago
My recent post Trolls
blogginglily 73p · 687 weeks ago
My recent post No Rest for the . . . Well . . . Anyone.
Mayor Gia · 687 weeks ago
My recent post Two Unrelated But Awesome Things!
Happy Elf Mom · 687 weeks ago
Good grief. I had all my vaccines and still got a medically documented case of measles so what I would say is DO NOT BLAME PARENTS if their unvaccinated kids get sick. 100% of the time people get sick because of viruses and not because of a lack of vaccination. (duh!)
BTW We do not have the regressive kind here, my children are all born autistic. I won't discount the stories of others, though I think honestly there is more to it than just the vaccines.
My recent post Hobbit Cloaks
Caryn · 687 weeks ago
My recent post This Is The Reality. And It Is Not Okay.
Patty · 687 weeks ago
The Domestic Goddess · 687 weeks ago
That's s aid,we have two born-this-ways. And obviously genetic, since I had two brothers that talked at 4, one at three and three nephews all on the spectrum. And anyone that argues with me gets a kick in the pants. S there. ;)
My recent post It’s the End of the Internet as We Know it, and I Feel Fine
Stuart Duncan · 687 weeks ago
My God I hate you. Can't you write anything that makes any sense at all? Did you even attend school?
The rest I agree with though :D
Jenn · 687 weeks ago
Lana Schuhmacher · 687 weeks ago
That being said. I do believe that some are born, and some are pre-desposed, (like my daughter). We all need the answers, why we got here, what part of our genetics has done this, and how to make our and our children's lives more managable.
And more importantly, we all need to work together, no more name calling, or "I know more than you", "your opinion is different from mine, therefore it is wrong."
And that is just my two cents, hopefully it makes sense.
scargosun · 687 weeks ago
Christy and Gavin · 687 weeks ago
Jessica · 687 weeks ago
My recent post What I Need
Sarah · 687 weeks ago
Thank you for saying this. As a person who cannot hold an immunity to measles (I've been injected 7 times in my life, and not a single vac has taken) and a mother to two children who cannot hold an immunity to measles, I am so scared that one day they will contract this life-threatening disease. It presented once, at their old school. I pulled my older son out for two weeks. I don't like the amount (or the timing) of our current vaccines, but children are alive because of them.
As for further research-- absolutely! Just because one researcher has been discredited doesn't mean that all research into the subject should be stopped-- quite the opposite! And why is no one researching the possible link between autism and gluten-casein intolerance? I've heard there are promising results there as well-- especially for type 2 autism.
My recent post The Birthday Party Conundrum
@thefrugalflambe · 687 weeks ago
@gypsy_momma · 687 weeks ago
My daughter hit all milestones, no issues whatsoever with anything - had at least 20 words in her vocabulary by 8 months even, lovely child, only thing all that 'off' about her early in life is she snored from hour one & there were latch issues that I just couldn't fix so we switched to a bottle. At 10 months old she developed her first ear infection.
By a year old we'd noticed she'd quit talking. Instead she'd just SCREAM. She also quit sleeping on her own. She'd start SCREAMING as soon as you'd lay her down and would only sleep for an hour, two at the most if she was laying propped on me. I'd take her to the doc. He'd look her over & decide nothing was wrong with her, I just needed to change my parenting style. I needed to quit coddling my SCREAMING toddler.
Online friends of mine suggested that she may fall on the spectrum, so I went thru all the testings & EI & all. Yep...she was autistic, but not, maybe it was just SPD, or no, she didn't fit that the next week, definitely on the spectrum, high functioning one week, the next week no where near the spectrum. Until they decided it was just a parenting problem. Just before she turned 2 I went into the hospital because MY body was shutting down from the lack of sleep.
Thankfully around that time someone suggested melatonin & I ran with it & she started sleeping for 3-4 hrs at a time, so I started getting what looked like sleep...and that was with the 9mg max dose recommendations. Thankfully we moved to a whole new state a few months after her 2nd birthday...a whole new batch of OTs, PTs, & doctors.
They all said basically the same thing as the previous one - yes, she seemed on the spectrum one day, but not quite another day...the thing they did differently though is they sent us to an ENT. Not because she'd had chronic ear infections, but because there was fluid in her ears without infection symptoms. When she was 30 months old...almost 18 months after her 1st/only ear infection...tubes were put in her ears & her adenoids were removed. She FINALLLLLY started sleeping ALL night! She also quit the SCREAMING all the time and actually started talking a bit.
Just before her 4th birthday, a few months ago, she had her tonsils taken out. She quit snoring. She's started talking...all.the.time. Screaming is minimal & what I'd deem as 'normal' for a 4 year old with a 9 year old brother. And she now just has speech therapy 2x a week & soon to start physical therapy to help correct some balance issues. It's expected that by the time she starts kindergarten in about 18 months she'll be totally on par with her 'normal' classmates.
I'm not saying something as 'simple' as a few surgeries will cure autism, not in any way shape or form. But I do know that some professionals would rather brush some kids or parents off into such a broad category than actually listen to parents or would rather blame the parent for some shortcoming on their part than to find a real reason for regressions & the like.
It pissed me royally off to review my daughter's medical chart & see where one had said that she was cured of autism & SPD when in fact all she needed was her genetically abnormally large tonsils & adenoids removed. I've suffered with sinus & ear issues all my life, but never anything severe enough for my folks or doctors to consider doing anything about it...I leave here in a few hours to have my surgery scheduled to have mine removed with the expectations of getting the same results - a 'cure' for chronic issues. My chronic issues though didn't start until I was about 10 years old and coincided with my first ever actual upper respiratory infection.
Regardless of the reason behind the diagnosis or the sudden cause or regression or whatever, it's a VERY broad category that has been recently made popular for kids to be shuffled into because they don't meet the status quo and some professionals are just too lazy to look past the surface.
@TheDanaK · 687 weeks ago
There are mito families that noticed severe regression after vaccines. There are families that did not have any outwards signs of mitochondrial disease until after adverse reactions to vaccines. I truly believe there is a potential for predisposition to mitochondrial dysfunction/autism/various other issues that some vaccines can trigger. Just recently, I was alerted to this article showing issues with the Hep B vaccine causing a loss of mitochondrial integrity & cell death (plus other issues). This is the only vaccine I skip and, now, will continue to skip. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22249285 My son has mito - it makes sense for me to skip a vaccine that seems to be showing a clear negative impact on the mitochondria, in my opinion.
Parents need better access to studies like this. Doctors need to be better informed about studies like this. More research is needed across the board. There is not a "one size fits all" vaccine schedule, regardless of what the AAP & CDC may think, and parental concerns should not be dismissed by medical professionals.
Sorry for the novella of a comment.
My recent post Review: Virginia Living Museum #HRVA
OKinUK · 687 weeks ago
Kay · 687 weeks ago
on a related note I'll just offer this :Personally, I care about answers and cures and autism prevention plans in our future. I'm not that interested in anger, blame, or fighting though. I will work with you toward common goals. To educate and support. But I just can't give a rats ass about arguing with anyone who is also raising a child with autism. I have my grief and anger, too. Therapy and healthcare are my friends and allies. If your kid has autism and you are struggling, I hope you want to be my friend and ally, too. I hope you can accept that I just don't know enough to agree or disagree with: thoughts about vaccines. I am not trying to diminish anyone's experience or tell them that they are batshit crazy. I'm just saying,"well, um, I dunno."
Jim Reeve · 687 weeks ago
I don't know if vaccines can cause ASD, but if they dido and we kneow about it, I'd still get my son vaccinated against some things. We as parents look for answers about our children's issues. Me personally, I think vaccines could worsen ASD, but maybe it doesn't. The funny thing is, if tests proved without a doubt, that vaccines had no bearing on autism what so ever, would parents really believe that to be true?
My recent post THE BENEFITS OF A STICKER REWARD CALENDAR
Kat · 687 weeks ago
Hey im not Kay, I'm Kat. Thank God. Kay is not so great a name, I opine.
Sarah Rabb Creekmore · 687 weeks ago
pugariffic 41p · 687 weeks ago
Just Jennifer · 687 weeks ago
My daughter has ADD. I just learned that it's possible that my gestational diabetes may have contributed to it. There's NOTHING I can do about that! All we can do is the best we can with what we have.
My recent post Before I Die
Virginia Dorrell · 687 weeks ago
wantapeanutblog 70p · 687 weeks ago
Now, if one does think vaccines might cause this kind of developmental delay, it doesn't necessarily only have to be for regressive types of autism. Many newborns get vaccines within a day or two of birth. Again, maybe we just don't see the effects of those until later, when certain types of brain development occur.
That said, I don't believe that is the case, and I'd like to see money go in to other types of research, because I do think we can focus on the vaccine-autism link which is certainly controversial but may be barking up the wrong tree.
Finally, I agree there are likely to be multiple types of autism, and research is already being done to show that. In other words, it may not be the two you describe, but based more on the causes; i.e., genetic (perhaps expressed and unexpressed) or "triggered" by some environmental factor (in-utero or later), caused by seizure or other medical condition, an immune response, and maybe sub-types within those. That type of understanding would not just help us determine causes, but also help us identify appropriate treatments on a per-child basis and clear up why some kids seem to benefit from, say, dietary changes, while others do not.
My recent post You Can Thank Me Later
Katie Wright · 687 weeks ago
It is so terrible, honestly, if it had not happened to my child I don't know if I would believe it.
I
@SheSaidKass · 687 weeks ago
Another interesting thing is that regressive autism exists in those who have not been vaccinated, and existed long before vaccinations.
Which makes me believe that "vaccination injuries" causing Autism is a desperate reach for people to have something to put the blame on. I could easily be one of those people, but have talked to so many other parents of children with regressive autism (both vaccinated and not) and realize that it's merely a coincidence.
My recent post A Year Ago…Happy Birthday Kass
Guest · 687 weeks ago
Amen to the idea of working together to do what's best for the kids!
wyrz 24p · 687 weeks ago
As a thought experiment, let's say it's proven tomorrow that a percentage of kids immunized will develop autism. Will I stop vaccinating my kids? Hell, no. If I take my kids to the hospital, I know that there is a proven statistically significant chance that the visit will result in a serious viral or bacterial infection. That's a proven risk. Yet, I take them when they need it, because I balance that chance against the risks and discomfort of the condition that the hospital is treating.
illbeyourwater 35p · 687 weeks ago
Anyways, your quote " Measles can kill; autism cannot. I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead one; and so would you." This is my thoughts (although, thanks to being in America each can make their own choice without judgement from me).
porchopolis 26p · 687 weeks ago
My recent post Letter to My Autistic Child
@jumpinjemima · 687 weeks ago
Lizbeth · 687 weeks ago
For us, I'm a strong believer that its a mix of old age and bad eggs and blamo-you get a perfect kid with Autism. Or at least we did. I have a scientific background and I see more of a link with genetics and autism. I believe there will be a genetic marker found but for now we just have to wait for the science to catch up.
My recent post I'm so not the hero today.
ShesAlwaysWrite · 687 weeks ago
We knew from the very beginning there was something different about our son and approached pediatrician about autism around 15 mos... but it took until he got a lot worse for anyone to take it seriously and he was nearly 4 when he got diagnosed.
Shalini · 687 weeks ago
My recent post Stuff Brown People Like
Annie · 687 weeks ago
Scientists say there's no link, is not all the mothers saying it A FRKEN LINK!!!! idiots still exist - there's proof.
@margheritte · 687 weeks ago
Amy Knox · 687 weeks ago
Dani G · 687 weeks ago
I agree that there's gotta be some connection, and we'd better figure it out soon because hell hath no fury like an Autism mommy!!
Just because my experience is different, I'd never, ever question or fuck with another mom's belief regarding her own baby and/or his/her experience. Mommies (and daddies) know.
My recent post *This Moment*
Cathy · 687 weeks ago
Brittany · 687 weeks ago
All these battles when we should be together raising awareness and funds for research on a cure and prevention.
My recent post The Case of the Itchy Scratchy Baby and the Nipple that Wasn’t